shoober420
Unfortunately, I cannot install the “steam-native-runtime” on Obarun. The following packages require “lib32-systemd“.
lib32-libgudev
lib32-libnm-glib
lib32-libpulse
lib32-libudev0-shim
lib32-polkit
libudev0-shim
steam-native-runtime
I was able to install the steam-native-runtime on Artix Linux (s6) and everything worked fine. Why can’t obarun install the steam-native-runtime package group?
bda65
Steam is proprietary software. We can't recompile it without systemd. systemd is a mandatory dependency of steam software.
Playonlinux / wine work if you want gaming.
shoober420
Artix is also a systemd free distro based on Arch, and the steam-native-runtime runs great. I’ve read that they didn’t recompile Steam, but recompiled the fore mentioned packages in my list to get Steam working. Why doesn’t Obarun do this?
banned_9-26-2021
Artix, and most other distros, use elogind and libelogind, which is a big chunk of systemd. It is not init related, it regulates which user ha access to what resource, when and how the user logins and logs out once done.
Do you have obmultilib and multilib (32 bit libraries) repos active?
shoober420
I have all the repos active. I feel “libudev0-shim” is a vital role here.
[deleted]
I will take a closer look at these packages.
EDIT: Well, after a first look, there are systemd and libsystemd deps in all of these packages. libudev0-shim could be a problem but globally it will takes a lot of work. At the moment I don't have the time for this.
I also use steam but I do not run the steam native runtine. There is no advantage in using the Steam native runtime.
shoober420
I already manage a good number of AUR packages. I’m going to see if I can compile those packages without systemd. If so, I will then upload non-systemd variants to the AUR.
A Gentoo user and I are responsible for the libudev0-shim package to get Steam running without the runtime. As you know, Arch repos use the latest package versions compared to other distros. This is why a lot of us use Arch, it’s bleeding edge.
If you use a bleeding edge distro with the latest package versions, I would imagine you want your programs to as well, and not use a bundled runtime with older stable packages. If this were the case, and I chose Debian for example, which has older package versions for stability, using the runtime wouldn’t matter.
But since many of us want bleeding edge, I want Steam to use my local system packages. There’s many git packages I compile myself to get even more bleeding edge (sdl2-hg and openal-git). So there is a big difference between using the runtime and not, depending on the users system. In my case, it’s intentionally a very big difference.
shoober420
I’ve made some discoveries. So according to the Artix versions of the above mentioned packages, they apparently depend on “lib32-elogind” and “lib32-eudev”. These packages defeat the purpose of a systemd free distro, so it make sense not to include these. It’s a shame Steam depends on the ancient libnm-glib. I wonder if there’s a way to tell the runtime to just use the systemd portion...
eric
This the artix way, they claims to be systemd free but they use systemd trojan... Try to remove elogind from Artix and nothing will works anymore. I can understand that distro provide elogind but i cannot understand that a system may be completely dependent on it. For example, Alpine provide it on their repo but you're not forced to use it.
banned_9-26-2021
Exactly, and this is where I turned cold with Void. Since the decision was made to allow the trojan in, the following decision was made to abandon and remove consolekit2 and do this in a silent subtle way. By the time the process was done anything that uses ck in the past was moved over to elogind. Then the final hit is replacing the pkg with an empty-dummy making you think it is an upgrade. Xbps doesn't even compute differentials in size as pacman does, so by the time you realize what happened it is as if they have stolen the pkg from your system. If you used some sw you built on ck .... they don't care. Even LXDE and XFCE run on elogind now.
Excuse: "everyone else is using it"
There is a technical argument from hell!
So, this beta project called KISS, states in their front page "WE WILL NEVER USE ELOGIND OR SYSTEMD", but it si a source distro, you are free to use it if you like.
Void used zstd and made xbps able to use it before Arch even thought of using it. Void also used systemd before Debian used it.
shoober420
After some more testing, I found another interesting discovery. I removed the “elogind” and “lib32-elogind” packages from my Artix install, and Steam still works fine. But, when I remove the “lib32-eudev” package, Steam fails to start. So Steam apparently doesn’t actually depend on elogind, or any component of systemd. This is contrary to how “lib32-libgudev” is setup, as the PKGBUILD says it depends on it, but it doesn’t. This is a similar situation to where “lib32-mesa-git” in the AUR used to have a systemd dependency, when it actually doesn’t require it at all.
shoober420
Finally, I got the steam-native-runtime to work on Obarun. Some of those packages have a “lib32-systemd” dependency, but they don’t actually need it. The “libudev0-shim” packages work fine with libeudev installed. If you edit the PKGBUILDs of those packages and remove the “lib32-systemd” dependency like Artix does, Steam launches successfully on Obarun without using the runtime.
So if I can’t get Arch guys to remove the lib32-systemd dependency from those packages, i’ll upload nonsystemd versions to the AUR for anyone who wants to run Steam without the runtime on Obarun.
shoober420
Or maybe you guys could point those specific packages to use Artix repos?
banned_9-26-2021
shoober420 wroteSo if I can’t get Arch guys to remove the lib32-systemd dependency from those packages
You will get banned just for asking such a thing on all arch boards/forums.
If there was manpower and server money for more repositories in Obarun many more things would be done inhouse. But Obarun is not even popular enough to have mirrors needed yet.
shoober420
I was fortunate to have them remove “lib32-systemd” from the “lib32-mesa-git” package. I sent some pull requests in to change the official pkgbuilds so that they don’t ask for systemd. It does indeed look like i’ll have to upload nonsystemd versions to the AUR.
eric
Or maybe you guys could point those specific packages to use Artix repos?
https://forum.obarun.org/viewtopic.php?id=379
Also, do not expect support from here if you mix the Obarun repo with Artix repo. The package policies is really not the same between us. Obarun packager do not just copy Arch pkgbuild but make some change on it sometime...
shoober420
Understandable, I don’t want Obarun to join Artix either. I don’t see the Arch guys removing the systemd dependencies either. I’m going to upload nosystemd versions of these packages today to the AUR for anyone who wants to use Steam without the runtime. It’s a niche thing, but some people do run Steam without the runtime.
shoober420
I uploaded all the required packages to get Steam running without the runtime if anyone is interested.
banned_9-26-2021
I've never run steam because of its interdependence with IBM's crap, so I am clueless, what pkgs in AUR did you upload?
shoober420
Here’s my packages.
https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/?O=0&SeB=M&K=shoober420&outdated=&SB=n&SO=a&PP=50&do_Search=Go
The main required ones I’ve uploaded are the following:
libudev0-shim-nosystemd
lib32-libudev0-nosystemd
lib32-libgudev-nosystemd-git
libpulse-nosystemd-git
lib32-libpulse-nosystemd-git
What do you mean by interdependence with IBM?