Obarun looks nice and all but whether I install KDE, XFCE or JWM, I am not able to install a GUI package manager

I do not want to have to use pacman CLI forever more.

Can anyone help me please?

If not, I'll have to pass on Obarun which looks to be a very cool distro.

Thank you
Hi discipulus, have you tried octopi by chance? Also you may have to install the package: archlinux-appstream-data-pamac or else pamac may not work correcly.

edit:pamac-classic has not been updated to compile with the new pacman.
sudo pacman -S octopi

did not find any packages

the appstream package was not found either. The pacman.conf appears to be as it should be according to the documentation

I managed to briefly install pamac but it could not find anything to install except Links browser, even when AUR was enabled

Someone must know why these tools are not behaving as they would on say Endeavour or Manjaro
I thought you were getting these packages from the aur. Did you install pamac from the aur? Anyway I'm confident, that is the only way to get them on pure arch linux, which obarun works side by side with. Otherwise you can add chaotic-aur to your etc/pacman.conf and those packages should be there.

Instructions: https://aur.chaotic.cx/
Those instructions do not work. After pacman.conf is updated, I get error messages once more.

Please, someone who actually made this distro please tell me how I can get a GUI package manager that works, or I will be forced to abandon this distro :(

[EDIT: I have followed numerous guides, including this one

https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Arch_User_Repository

but none are working on Obarun]
word of advice: saying "I get error messages" and not telling us what they are, is no help to those who would help you :)
the generic answer to "I get error messages" is: "you're doing it wrong" :D
but today, you're in luck, i saw this and thought: how hard can it be?
arch offers multiple ways of achieving what you want... here's one:
1. open web browser
2. go to: https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/octopi/
3. top right hand corner: download snapshot
4. file manager: navigate to where your download is, extract it (using whatever archive utility you like or sometimes the filemanager can do this)
5. open a terminal, cd to the extracted snapshot
6. run makepkg (do not use sudo or root user)
7. at this point it fails, because of missing dependencies (that are listed) , some can be got with pacman -S <package>, this one: alpm_octopi_utils can be got by repeating the above steps and then, once build, installed with sudo pacman -U alpm_octopi_utils*pkg* (in the directory it's in)
8. now all dependencies are installed run makepkg for octopi again and then install the resulting package..

or
1. do the same steps for an AUR helper eg. trizen, and once installed, it'll do all that (repo searching, dep resolution, etc) for you.. (and then also via octopi once you have that)

me, i'll stick with pacman, thanks..
I downloaded the snapshot, followed the steps above (which is something I know how to do, FWIW), and then there ARE indeed unresolved dependencies.

So I try to install them with pacman, but it's not interested:

"error: 'alpm_octopi_utils': could not find or read package"

So I go back to the website, find THAT package, and repeat the steps and THAT has unresolved dependencies

So PLEASE:

1. stop thinking I'm an idiot
2. accept that I am on a fresh install using the medium provided
3. consider that maybe something is wrong with Obarun

and if you are still willing to help me, then great

If not, I CANNOT use this software. Pacman works fine for me on Manjaro and Endeavour. It DOES not on Obarun.

It is clearly NOT intended that when I do 'sudo pacman -S alpm_octopi_utils' that it tells me that the package does not exist

PLEASE, SOMEONE, help me find an answer. PLEASE
First,
about pamac
https://git.cromer.cl/cromer/pamac-classic/issues/9
So pamac do not work with pacman 6. This is not depending of Obarun.

Second,
It is clearly NOT intended that when I do 'sudo pacman -S alpm_octopi_utils' that it tells me that the package does not exist
Yes, this is intended because
https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/?O=0&SeB=nd&K=alpm_octopi_utils&outdated=&SB=n&SO=a&PP=50&do_Search=Go
Again, this is not depending of Obarun.
Also, the help coming from ncmprhnsbl was pretty clear
alpm_octopi_utils can be got by repeating the above steps and then, once build, installed with sudo pacman -U alpm_octopi_utils*pkg* (in the directory it's in)
Third,
It DOES not on Obarun.
Pacman works on Obarun as pacman works on Arch. Nothing more nothing less.

Fourth,
1. stop thinking I'm an idiot
Do you see any sentences in this thread telling this? An Obarun user take time to friendly answer and help you. This is not a good manner to thanked him.
consider that maybe something is wrong with Obarun
Always!
And you, can you consider that you don't use or understand the things correctly?
Thank you for your response.

I would like if this calms down a bit. I acknowledge my own role in inflaming the conversation, but I am extremely frustrated by being told that all is working as it should.

Let's forget pamac. Hell, let's even forget Octopi.

Let's just talk about pacman itself

Why will it not allow me to install any packages? (by not finding them)

I don't mind HAVING to use CLI as long as it does what it is meant to

Why won't it find Octopi?

In other words, why did the previous person trying to help me tell me to download snapshots off of a website, and manually install them all?

Pacman is meant to be able to fetch packages AND their dependencies from repos and do everything for me, right?

Or am I still wrong?
1 On any arch related board, when they hear the word pamac they want to puke. I believe it came from Manjaro, and as artix came from Manjaro-OpenRC it tried to bring it over with it. I have no idea what endeavour is and since it is using systemd I am not interested. If it didn't I would know about it, like I know about hyperbola, and parabola, and spark (now that is a good systemd for a newbie to be driven back to MS-win).
- Nevertheless, the way pamac displays packages and information is about the best I've seen (including debian's synaptic). But you have to understand that ALL the information/data displayed by a pamac is information fed to it by pacman (and an Aur helper script it incorporates).

2 Obarun's pacman incorporates ALL arch repositories, and therefore ALL Arch packages available. Artix doesn't. And Manjaro has NO ARCH packages available, NOT ONE! AUR is not arch.

3 If you use pacman right, which means no matter what has been done, % sudo pacman -Syy will resynchronize everything to the current (about 84" worth, and make sure they all show 100% no warning or "unable to...") state of the repositories. If you use the search command % pacman -Ss systemd you can see that even systemd is there. In artix (reference to one of the initial artix devs chris cromnix above) you don't see it because arch:core repository is not there. So ALL arch packages are "here".

4 If and when Manjaro fixes pamac for pacman 6, and artix people adopt their fix or fork their own, and when and if someone updates the AUR pamac package, you have to make sure that your user's services are correct. That means that dbus and consolekit are active (boot-user tree and user services), because pamac needs to run as both user and root and be able to upgrade and downgrade rights. You need root rights to update/sync pacman, to install and remove, you can search as user, you MUST be a user to build packages from AUR, you must be root to install them. As user if you type % pacman -Sy it fails, pacman -Ss pacman shows something. The gui for pamac is pamac-manager, pamac alone is just the cli wrapper for pacman and an aur helper.

Pacman doesn't have anything to do with AUR, what you do with aur has to be done away from pacman. If a correctly built package results then pacman can install it for you with pacman -U as said above.

5 What specifically is the problem with your pacman you have to help us understand so we can help you to fix it.
Provide the output: 
% sudo pacman -Sy 
% pacman -Ss alpm
% sudo pacman -S cower
6 Octopi is an AUR package/s pacman never showed octopi in its repositories. If some "other" distro on its own repositories, apart from Arch, had octopi or pamac that has nothing to do with arch or obarun or pacman.

Now, you want to have access to AUR packages, so give us the output of the above commands and we will go from there.
Also provide us with the output of this command.
% 66-intree -zg
Note, always, when you see % it indicates a user, # indicates root, which can be substituted with % sudo, so % sudo 66-intree -zg is the same as # 66-intree -zg. The z option is for color, we will not see it but you will :)
pamac-classic is a very old version of pamac (3-4 years ago), pamac-aur-git builds fine, whether it works right or not I wouldn't want to know, as it wants to take over and enforce what stays in cache and what doesn't. Before you go building it, you have to build libpamac-aur

The install file that comes with it is to activate the systemd-timer for doing synchronization of repositories automatically. It comes with a tray icon/app.

Be warned, your system may be ruined by this sw. Using it for browsing through software is fine, using it to make, install, remove, is a risk you have to consciously take on your own.
Hi Fungal Net.

First of all, a big thank you. You are the reason I am here. A couple of weeks ago I read from your website about the problems with systemd and have been testing and trying systemd-free distros ever since. I am not ready for Kwort and Sabotage or maybe even Void, but since Obarun has something I can relate to AT LEAST A LITTLE BIT (i.e. pacman and the arch wiki), I thought I would give it a real go.

I am, however, a relative newcomer to the CLI and even more recent to Arch based systems. If I mention something with systemd, I am not trying to make a point, I am just relating my experience. I wish that Manjaro and Endeavour and all those others would see the light regarding systemd, but it seems that they are too lazy or even compromised. I guess there are probably threads somewhere on the interwebs about this question.

Anyway, I would hope there is a place in the systemd-free world for users like me, who are comfortable with many things but still learning the console. I have a very busy life, and many things to juggle, and am even homeless, but I have also in the last few days tried to learn at a faster rate than before. It will take me some time to get there.

I appreciate all the help I receive on the way.

My frustrations come from the fact that it was complicated AF to install a GUI package manager. I now have a way (albeit REALLY longwinded) to install Octopi, which is something. I can at least search for packages once I know what to look for. Pamac may be dangerous and insecure, yada yada, I believe you, but as someone still getting to know what software is available to my distro, it was very useful. I can try and live without it and maybe I will find better ways of working and learning to use the tools I have. No argument from me there.

My only remaining point, if you could call it that, is this: let me give you a concrete example of a situation that I (and other users of my type) will likely face, where searching for packages in the same graphical tool I can use to install them is a time-saving wonder. I use pacman to try to install chromium, and discover that it needs systemd. OK, so I want to know what are the next 3 best browsers for this system that I can install without that dependency. What is the best non-GUI way to go about this problem? antiX with their package installer gives me a list from which I can see the short, one-line descriptions. Here I do not know what to do.

(sidepoint) Some of the apps I regularly use are Flatpaks. I know that Flatpaks don't automatically need systemd, as I managed to install plenty on antiX. However, antiX does not do Plasma support well, and is, according to your hardcore list, a lot less 'pure'. (I also don't share the politics of the main dev team, so that is kinda tough). Yes I can browse on Flathub, but for a user like me, it is so great to have my GUI package manager 'see' them and let me browse them there.

So thank you for your continued help and warnings. I will do a fresh install and commit myself to learning step by step, day by day. I apologize for my earlier temper and venting, and I will try to avoid asking for help unless I cannot find the answer after a couple of days of searching by myself.
Obarun used to say with big fat letters "not for new users of linux", or inexperienced, ... I was one of those that insisted that as a community we can help any user to use obarun, as long as they are willing to learn.

If you are going to go with plasma don't get to eager to update things, especially if you see upgrades including qt-packages. I believe they are ready to make a leap into qt6 and that is not going to be readily available on obarun, and it can't be worked on till after arch publicizes the change.

Also pamac is a cli as I said above, it is a simplified wrapper around pacman, and formats output in a way that it can be adopted by pamac-manager (the gui).

It is also a better learning experience to fix a messed up installation than just doing re-install.
wait, so reading this it looks to me like pacman dont automatically satisfy dependencies? why is user not able to install octopi?
octopi is not in Arch or Obarun's repositories, it may be in AUR or other distributions repositories, but not here.
Once you build a package from source, if it meets alpm guidelines, pacman will install a local pkg. Pacman doesn't know whether it came originally from AUR, you wrote a PKGBUILD for a pkg from source, it was copied from an other distros repository, .....

Sometimes on aur packages there are dependencies to other aur packages, or may even be from previous pkgs that were in Arch and were removed. It happens frequently recently, I'd say about 20-30% of AUR pkgs are not even buildable, some are outdated by years, but if some dev/aur-keeper, dislikes a pkg, they will remove it right away. Sometimes the problem may be as simple as renaming a package. python-dbus and dbus-python for example may be the same pkg upgraded. Aur maintainers should keep an eye on things and update them all the time.
so is there any tool to search for packages before, to see what ones they are?
i think, there's common misunderstanding that occurs regarding Arch, pacman and the AUR.
stemming from it's name: "Arch User Repository" ..."repository" implying that it contains "packages" like any other repository.
it does not.
it contains only recipes to build and package applications via the makepkg scripts.
as pointed out above, pacman does not and cannot interact directly with AUR recipes.
there are, however, many "AUR helpers", that can search, download, build and instruct pacman to install the packages resulting from the AUR recipes.
but, they're only available from the AUR, so there's at least one app(and perhaps some deps) that must be built and installed manually.
a metaphor: in order to get the chicken that lays and hatches the eggs, you have to get and hatch the first egg yourself .. (where's the rooster? that's you ;) )
Arch kindly supplies extensive web interfaces for it's package repos and the AUR, displaying dependencies and dependents, all listed as clickable links,
making it easy to determine what's a package and what needs to be built.
using the duckduckgo search engine:
"!pkg <some app name>" to find Arch packages
"!aur <some app name>" to find AUR recipes
"!arch <a topic>" to find information on the Arch wiki (note: for obarun, ignore anything regarding systemd)
ah, thanks fungal_net, i'd forgotten that obarun supplies those packaged..
so.. revised:
if not already present: 
sudo pacman -S pacopts
then eg. to search 
pacopts aur -s pamac
pacopts: info: search pamac
aur/archlinux-appstream-data-pamac 20210612-1 (5)
    Arch Linux application database for AppStream-based software centers (Fixed for
    pamac-aur and pamac-all packages)
aur/libpamac 11.0.1-1 (2)
    Library for Pamac package manager based on libalpm
aur/libpamac-aur 11.0.1-1 (7)
    Pamac package manager library based on libalpm
aur/libpamac-full 11.0.1-1 (1)
    Library for Pamac package manager based on libalpm - flatpak and snap support
    enabled
aur/pamac-all 10.1.3-3 (16)
    A Gtk3 frontend for libalpm (everything in one package - snap, flatpak,
    appindicator)
aur/pamac-all-git 10.1.3.r0.g8582762-2 (4)
    A Gtk3 frontend for libalpm (everything in one package - snap, flatpak,
    appindicator)
aur/pamac-aur 10.1.3-1 (343)
    A Gtk3 frontend, Package Manager based on libalpm with AUR and Appstream support
aur/pamac-aur-git 10.1.3.r0.g8582762-1 (21)
    A Gtk3 frontend for libalpm - git version
aur/pamac-classic 7.2.1-2 (17)
    A Gtk3 frontend for libalpm - classic version
aur/pamac-cli 10.1.2-1 (8)
    Pamac cli frontend for libalpm
aur/pamac-tray-icon-plasma 0.1.3-1 (13)
    Pamac tray icon for plasma users
aur/pamac-zsh-completions 0.6-1 (4)
    ZSH completions for pamac
then to install (automatically detecting and installing deps) 
pacopts aur -I pamac-aur

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