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  • Post #1
Like every morning I'm taking the web temperature and this morning on sysdfree.wordpress.com website I read a new post written by sysdfree-editor about Obarun. I quote the post here to answer it point by point, the source of this post can be read following this link https://sysdfree.wordpress.com/2021/09/02/350/# comment-9554

Two points that I wish to underline here. The first one is that there is no Obarun user I know with a pseudonym "sysdfree-editor" which means in other words that anyone could post on sysdfree.wordpress.com website pretending be an Obarun user with the aim of destroying our work, our reputation. The second one is the date the post was sent, and that matters in the replies I'm going to give.

sysdfree-editor says:
20210923 at 0121

If Obarun doesn’t take action to denounce KDE-plasma for its telemetry and take it off its installer, I don’t think I will stick around much longer. Void, despite of their internal mess, they provide enough to stay healthy and the ability to reject all you don’t like. s6/66 works great on void and even greater on void-musl.

I’ve had enough of this naive hippy passivity with “what people like” in Obarun. There are times people need to get serious, put their feet down and their fists up and say, enough! Ya Basta!!!

OBARUN PROMOTES A DESKTOP THAT PROMOTES TELEMETRY IN LINUX

Kiss and Mere linux are my top two choices right now, but I am thinking about forking my own right now.
Now I'm going to respond to each of these allegations and even better I would like in my last answer to make you participate in a little game that came to my mind.
If Obarun doesn’t take action to denounce KDE-plasma for its telemetry and take it off its installer, I don’t think I will stick around much longer.
To realize how misleading these allegations are I have personally warned the users about Telemetry used in KDE, with a post in date of 2021-09-16 and here is the link to this post https://forum.obarun.org/viewtopic.php?id=1490

I also took the thing seriously enough to quickly offer an alternative without the Telemetry and the result of this work is now available on Obarun's repository to KDE users, with a new post https://forum.obarun.org/viewtopic.php?id=1500

Sir sysdfree-editor, you are not a prisoner of Obarun distro, you are free to leave the ship now, free to build your own distro or see if the grass is greener elsewhere, and on this last point I will talk about it later in my last answer.
I’ve had enough of this naive hippy passivity with “what people like” in Obarun. There are times people need to get serious, put their feet down and their fists up and say, enough! Ya Basta!!!
I really don't see what hippies has something to do with Obarun, and I sincerely think that your words lack that seriousness that you dare to claim. Also I didn't wait to you to realize how much Free Software is in the process of being destroyed from the inside, I already spoke about it, I have already explained what will happen to GNU and Linux, but if it can makes you feel better and happy Sir sysdfree-editor; "Enough!" Here it is, it's done...specially for you.
OBARUN PROMOTES A DESKTOP THAT PROMOTES TELEMETRY IN LINUX
THIS is the reason why I decided to use of my right of reply. This allegation is a pure lie built only from your mind. Obarun doesn't promote Telemetry in Linux, in a contrary and I have provided proof of this in my previous answers with links.
Kiss and Mere linux are my top two choices right now, but I am thinking about forking my own right now.
So now is the time for our little game, I promise you it's going to be funny.

This is what the game consists of:
From the last updated list of fourteen distribution without elogind and systemd, available here https://sysdfree.wordpress.com/2021/08/15/333/ we will classify these distributions using new criteria that I will list below. After which at the end I will compare them with Obarun.

1) The list of distribution I'm going to use and compare at the end with Obarun

Kiss linux
Kwort linux
Sabotage linux
Oasis linux
Zandra linux
Mutiny linux
Glaucus linux
Mere linux
Iglunix linux
Chimera linux
Carbs linux
Gobo linux
Venom linux

2) The list of criteria. We will measure here the independence and transparency of each distribution offered to the end users. Each criteria which is not valided disqualifies instantly the distribution and does not give it the right to move on to the next criteria. Each fully criteria passed gives a +1 point otherwise a +0.5 point to the distribution. This is a draft, excuse me if everything is not perfect, if you have any suggestions to improve all this, I'm listenning. I may also have made some errors in my searches, please correct me if this is the case.


- Criteria 1) Repository used by the distro
a) Github or not available -> Disqualified
b) Gitlab -> Tolerable
c) Gitlab hosted / Git hosted -> Perfect

- Criteria 2) Availability of package sources and build logs
a) Neither of the two -> Disqualified
b) Package Sources only -> Acceptable
c) Both available -> Perfect

- Criteria 3) Telemetry in the packages
a) Built-in ON or Unknown -> Disqualified
b) Built-in OFF -> Acceptable
c) No Telemetry in source code -> Perfect

- Criteria 4) Softwares used to connect with users
*) Google / Facebook / Twitter / Discord / Reddit -> Disqualified
*) IRC -> Acceptable
*) XMPP Hosted -> Perfect


Let's start!

Kiss linux
* Repository = Github ( https://github.com/kisslinux/repo )
DISQUALIFIED

Kwort linux
* Repository = Not available ( I express doubt, but right now I'm not able to find any repo )
DISQUALIFIED

Sabotage linux
* Repository = Github ( https://github.com/sabotage-linux )
DISQUALIFIED

Oasis linux
* Repository = Github ( https://github.com/oasislinux )
DISQUALIFIED

Zandra linux
* Repository = Git Hosted ( http://git.zandra.org/ ) +1
* Package sources and build logs = Package Sources only +0.5
* Connecting with users = Discord ( https://discord.gg/S7WCSZa3Qd )
DISQUALIFIED

Mutiny linux
* Repository = Git Hosted ( https://git.mutiny.red/ ) +1
* Package sources and build logs = Package Sources only +0.5
* Telemetry = Unknown
DISQUALIFIED

Glaucus linux
* Repository = Github ( https://github.com/glaucuslinux )
DISQUALIFIED

Mere linux
* Repository = Github ( https://github.com/jhuntwork/merelinux )
DISQUALIFIED

Iglunix linux
* Repository = Github ( ttps://github.com/iglunix )
DISQUALIFIED

Chimera linux
* Repository = Github ( https://github.com/chimera-linux )
DISQUALIFIED

Carbs linux
* Repository = Git Hosted ( https://git.carbslinux.org/ ) +1
* Package sources and build logs = Package Sources only +0.5
* Telemetry = Unknown
DISQUALIFIED

Gobo linux
* Repository = Github ( https://github.com/gobolinux/ )
DISQUALIFIED

Venom linux
* Repository = Github ( https://github.com/venomlinux/ )
DISQUALIFIED


Obarun linux
* Repository = Git Hosted ( https://git.obarun.org/ ) +1
* Package sources and build logs = Both available ( https://git.obarun.org/pkg ) ( https://git.obarun.org/pkg/obextra/dolphin/-/jobs/1064 as an example here ) +1
* Telemetry = Built-in OFF ( can be verified for each package from the pipeline logs ) +1
* Connecting with users = XMPP Hosted +1 ( However I want to be honest with you, if it was up to me there would be no link to youtube, twitter, Reddit ) so,
DISQUALIFIED
but I would say that it is the distribution which is near to be 100% independent and is 100% transparent for the end users. With +4 points Obarun ranks first on top of the podium.

So sir sysdfree-editor, you can build your own distro or even brag Void linux, which is in any way disqualified by their repository on Github, but one thing is clear without any doubt, you know what you are going to leave.

Sincerely
Jean-Michel
From that list:
List of distributions promoting Plasma: 1

List of distributions using arch's github without any logs of building packages .... 1

List of distributions whose core base pkgs can't be built within the distribution's builder: 1

https://forum.obarun.org/viewtopic.php?id=1386 (6 months ago)

I would say this is of higher priority than building kwrite or knotify




Your right to reply to the blog you found the article at was never denied, why are you bringing article discussion here?
Anything hosted by you personally .......

..... questionable .... let's not get down that low!
Ok!

1 You have not forked any qt kde or plasma code on your own, you are just packaging and configuring their entire code.
2 If all your life you have spent reading code, you have not read more than 1% of qt kde plasma code.
3 If someone tells you openly I will from now on use telemetry because telemetry is GOOD, do you think they will have to defend themselves using it somewhere where you don't know of it?

-------
- I don't know why I am bothering entering a rational discussion with someone openly on hallucinogens (religion)
-------

Maybe I should try a fairy tale since you seem partial to believing in them.

- Hi there Jean, i have a gift for you
- Yeah, what is it my fellow brother child of the mighty mighty lord?
- It is a cell-phone, NSA told me to give it to you
- Ohhh,, no brother, this is BAD, it has telemetry turned on!
- Yes, but look, it has a switch, you can turn telemetry OFF, that is GOOD!!
- OOhhhh,, that is great, then I will just click that switch off and use it when I go out hunting with my friends to kill atheists.


Scenario B! (you are not in this scenario, it is Sunday and you are too busy begging Jachve for forgiveness)

- Qt bastard 1 - Let's call him mr Smith, throws in a little piece of dirty code in Qt ... nobody knows what it does, nobody knows that is capable of doing something bad, and Qt global incorporated doesn't mind it, everything still works fine.
- KDE, bastard 2 - Let's call him mr Smith! Throws in a little piece of dirty code in KDE, nobody minds again, business as usual.
- Plasma team, bastard 3 - Let's call him mr Smith! Throws in a little piece of dirty code in plasma network monitor, nobody minds again, business as usual.

What if dirty code 1,2,3 together is telemetry and has been working for years.

Your task is to prove me wrong.
Your task is to provide with a rational explanation on why has Gnome gotten through doing it for years and just now, # 2 most "popular" DE is adopting it too.

Is it a feature?

Why is everyone so eager to get rid off gksu, consolekit, lxde, .... I'll go with what the prime offenders are trying to get rid off.

Remember, corporations profit or no-profit, salaries are paid, exist within the framework of gov.agencies. They will not say no in hiring mr Smith as a software engineer. Same guy, in every corporation writes the code that nobody understands, but it is OK, it is all FOSS

  • [deleted]

  • Post #5
My life is not built on supposed scenarios, lol. On the other hand you absolutely did not understand how works options on the compilation on a source code and the result in binary which follows from it. It is not here an end-user switch as it is found on Archlinux, but an option passed during the configuration of source code which eliminates any call to the code in connection with the telemetry. In the end the binary will not contain any code related to the telemetry.
I can understand this much, what you refuse to understand is that "entity A" comes out and says "we think that telemetry is a good solution to problems X,Y,Z" and people continue to use this bundle. Don't expect them to apologize for using the same type of "data collection" elsewhere that is not branded telemetry. And even if it doesn't exist today, it will exist tomorrow. It is the same exact 1st step firefox/mozilla took years ago and people kept using the sw. Now it is leaking from so many holes patches would be greater than the hull itself. If someone comes out today and says "mozilla is evil" it is using telemetry, eveyrone else says "so what, this has been done for years, they announced it"...

Like you are coming to whisper a secret in my ear and half way through the story I say I will share what you say with my cousin who is a cop. .... and you continue to tell me this secret. Not my fault, I told you I am a snitch ... you can't blame me. If it si a secret don't talk to the snitch, simple! You say, no it is ok, I put some tape on his mouth, he can't say anything.

How many different ways can I explain the same obvious to me problem!

For all I know openbox may be even worse than Gnome, who knows. But OpenBox team hasn't come out to openly say we value your data and we will obtain it, keep it, share it ... .. I am not going to look for fixes, I kick openbox as far as I can and use jwm, or that crazy icewm .. or blackbox ..

To advertise your distribution together with gnome, even patched and restricted, to me appears as a NEGATIVE!!! I don't care if it works without system or telemetry .... it is condemned. There is no value in getting Obarun installer to install Gnome.

So why is plasma better than gnome? I am a user, convince me, because I like gnome much better, it is cleaner easier looking, not chaotic with distasteful boxes and menus and submenus everywhere. Aesthetically it is very pleasing, KDE is like a Greek kiosk full of colorful stuff ... https://www.zarpanews.gr/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/periptera4.jpg

Convince me in what way plasma is better than Gnome. I bet you obarun users will triple in a month if you advertise a new Obarun-Gnome edition. ....

I am a marketing consultant, I advise you to drop xfce and add gnome.
@ jean-michael, I am going to assume you are open to suggestions.

The quoted text below is combative and may result in a de-evolving argument. If your goal is to ensure his audience has the facts, then stick to the facts and avoid charged words and phrases where you lose the audience as a result of being perceived as attacking the author.

State the facts and let the audience and author make their own decisions regarding the topic, Obarun.

Sincerely,

Techore
jean-michel wrote Sir sysdfree-editor, you are not a prisoner of Obarun distro, you are free to leave the ship now, free to build your own distro or see if the grass is greener elsewhere, and on this last point I will talk about it later in my last answer.
I’ve had enough of this naive hippy passivity with “what people like” in Obarun. There are times people need to get serious, put their feet down and their fists up and say, enough! Ya Basta!!!
I really don't see what hippies has something to do with Obarun, and I sincerely think that your words lack that seriousness that you dare to claim. Also I didn't wait to you to realize how much Free Software is in the process of being destroyed from the inside, I already spoke about it, I have already explained what will happen to GNU and Linux, but if it can makes you feel better and happy Sir sysdfree-editor; "Enough!" Here it is, it's done...specially for you.
OBARUN PROMOTES A DESKTOP THAT PROMOTES TELEMETRY IN LINUX
THIS is the reason why I decided to use of my right of reply. This allegation is a pure lie built only from your mind. Obarun doesn't promote Telemetry in Linux, in a contrary and I have provided proof of this in my previous answers with links.
4 days later
This all looks very messy, and I am sad to see that some people who have all been kind and welcoming to me have fallen into conflict. I'm not in any position to apportion any blame, and I dislike being made to take sides.

Is there any way that this can all be worked out via calm, measured dialogue, face to face, perhaps mediated?

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