banned_9-26-2021
I searched and searched the forum for an answer, and the wiki, but I can't believe there is no reference to this.
Is say one has an arch installation and wants to keep everything done but wants to switch to Obarun, is it possible/easy/hard?
I can imagine just installing the pacman.conf and then keyring -Syy ..populate obarun ... etc one has access to the obarun repositories on top of arch. Can then S6 be installed and systemd removed consequently or is it harder than I thought?
eric
Never tried. I think it's not impossible but the result can be different than expected depending of the packages installed with systemd dependencing, mostly for packages coming from AUR. I mean the core system can be sane easily but for the rest, a huge work can be need to replace packages with systemd or libsystemd dependencies by an alternative program or building them without the systemd supports. I can give you a pseudo installation step if you want, then you test it and you give us a report, then i would implement it on the wiki :)?!.
banned_9-26-2021
I am on, I like challenges. That would be a great asset I think to be able to get rid of systemd and replace it with S6.
banned_9-26-2021
eric wroteI can give you a pseudo installation step if you want.
where is it?
banned_9-26-2021
Ok, I am stuck. It is hard to turn things around so I'll have to revert from scratch.
I initially installed basic netinstall arch and booted. Then I thought the average person willing to move to another init system would be running some desktop, so I installed LXDE and LXDM and rebooted. It worked fine. There wasn't anything that I could do, even incrementally to displace the systemd garbage. So I thought maybe I would follow the artix procedure for conversion. That didn't work either. So I thought, maybe if I can convert arch to artix and artix to obarun then I can figure out the steps to skip artix all together.
First of all the artix procedure is nearly 6mos old, and was closer to arch-openrc than to current artix. So there are a few glitches and it can still be done, BUT! There is a sequence of errors of crud left that refer to sensord lm_sensors etc. I am not even familiar with why they are and what they do. The installation seems functional and working but no desktop. No xinit openbox, no sddm, no lxdm, no lightdm, will go up. Some freeze in a black screen with a functional mouse pointer, some return an error and return from shutting down x-server. But it starts with openrc, maybe a few more services than needed, carried out from init-hell, and it is artix, not arch now, a dysfunctional artix.
I am reporting this while I am investigating the work of sensorsd
eric
i'm currently downloading an Arch ISO to be able to make test, but my connection is horrible ( 8 hours of download and this is not finished). then i will install some desktop with it and i will try to translate it to obarun.
I come back
banned_9-26-2021
Read up on the installation instructions, it is not arch it is archaic.
It is only half a G, what are you using a 9600baud modem?
If I am in the third world you must be in fourth ;)
LXDE starts up in a few seconds, none of that debian madness.
ray
I'm not against artix, but in which way it's more practical and advantageous than obarun?
banned_9-26-2021
It is not, it is just different.
Artix is slowly but steadily cleaning up arch repositories and rebuilds pkgs so they can run without systemd. It runs with OpenRC. The way it differes from Obarun, AFAIU, is that it creates dummy libraries to fool software that systemd is there. Obarun draws a line and says to pkgmakers and users, if they need systemd they will not be installed.
So practically to the user (you can substitute prostitute) who doesn't care, artix is good. But in the long run and to those with social principles above personal convenience Obarun is right.
Artix is a lot of good work put towards adoptation to the market forces. The market is arch and debian based.
The more people adopt to their dominance the more totalitarian and centralized linux will become. Which was the plan with the systemd trojan. Whose side are you on boys, whose side are you on?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SB0fc9CobQ
eric
@ It is only half a G, what are you using a 9600baud modem?
i have a serious glitch with my connection (20-30kb/s), it's really difficult to make things in this context. it took me more than two hours just for install the base :(
eric
Ok, so
tested on virtualbox with fresh installation from last Arch ISO with mate as desktop environment.
note : an user was created with this : useradd -m -g users -G floppy,storage,disk,video,scanner,network,audio,optical.
first remove automatic login or DM
pass to console
general step to follow :
append pacman.conf with obarun repo and SigLevel set to Never
synchronize
install obarun-keyring
modify pacman.conf setting SigLevel to Required
synchronize again with -Syy
install applysys pacopts
remove crap with -Rnsudd systemd libsystemd systemd-sysvcompat
install the marvel with -S s6-suite eudev-obarun consolekit2
launch pacopts origin command and replace all packages with the good one when it ask you. be carefull of the messages when filesystem is installed and make the necessaries change about x.pacnew files.
modify the s6.conf to suit your needs
launch pacopts service and install the service that you need when it ask you.
kill the pid 1 with kill 1 command then press CTRL-C when the tty appear(this will reboot the machine)
after the reboot, log on and enable service with s6opts program
finally reboot for the last time
done
Obviously, i think this speudo convertion need improvment, so test it and make a report :)
nonico
eric wrote
remove crap...
:D
banned_9-26-2021
This is great to know, that it is not futile to try it.
I got my hands tied as I moved a disk from a very old computer to a much newer one (2007 --> 2013 :)
Almost all installations had trouble with the new hw, but it was intel/intel to intel/intel (I just use what I can get cheap-cheap and all the AMD stuff must be getting picked up faster by the new generation of linux-kids).
OBAviously Obarun had the least problems adopting, with no DM, it was up and running, and I have to admit I tried my 2 obarun installation before anything else. Others had more trouble. Void is only getting 1024 vga graphics. I messed with grub, gfx resolution and the pass to kernel mode (keep, text, ...) nothing.
Artix gave me a bit of a headache but managed to settle in its new home.
So next is a fresh arch with LXDE trying to convert.
I did not create a user before, I just left it for later. Does it matter? I figured whatever works with root will work for a user and I can create one later.
The artix instructions gave a command to gather the services running on systemd so you can replicate into their init. Although Arch seems very light by default what is starting, in contrast debian starts a billion stuff just with minimal installation and takes for ever to boot. Still I don't think everything is necessary just to get the init starting the system up so you can do more later.
Last i tried to kill 1 it didn't let me, but I assume you have to really confident the new init system is ready to go to do this.
eric
@ nonico
:p
@ I did not create a user before, I just left it for later. Does it matter?
not really, but if i remember well, a lot of group is not set for an user with system:D, that's why i precise it, nothing more.
@ Still I don't think everything is necessary just to get the init starting the system up so you can do more later.
System:D put all on the PID1 even if the service is not necessary for the boot, not the case on Obarun, init and running time is completly separated. So concretly on obarun you don't need extra service to start the machine. After, you can launch service that your really need for your running time, maybe consolekit, cgmanager, dbus, dhcpcd(or other for the network) can be sufficient to have a complex desktop running correctly like xfce. As you can see it's not a ton as system:D does.
banned_9-26-2021
Not much to report on yet, first try was a failure.
The instructions worked for the majority of the transition with one little glitch. When I rebooted everything worked except networking. I tried to see what was the obstacle and I found netctl. So I removed it eventually.
Then I tried the routine suggested in this other thread I commented today about S6 rebuilding networking and it got totally messed up. That uncaught log that is mentioned on the emergency console was empty.
https://forum.obarun.org/viewtopic.php?id=329
So back from scratch. Luckily I kept the arch installation in an image right before I tried the conversion and this time I may do something a little different.
banned_9-26-2021
Second try I did through chroot so I have a better view and copy things of interest.
From the above instructions I found one little error
It is not sysvcompact but sysvcompac
append /etc/pacman.conf with obarun repo and SigLevel set to Never
[obarun-testing]
SigLevel = Never
# SigLevel = Required
Server = https://repo.obarun.org/$arch/testing
[obarun]
SigLevel = Never
# SigLevel = Required
Server = https://repo.obarun.org/$arch
synchronize
pacman -Syy
install obarun-keyring
pacman -S obarun-keyring
modify pacman.conf setting SigLevel to Required
[obarun-testing]
# SigLevel = Never
SigLevel = Required
Server = https://repo.obarun.org/$arch/testing
[obarun]
# SigLevel = Never
SigLevel = Required
Server = https://repo.obarun.org/$arch
synchronize again with -Syy
pacman -Syy
install applysys pacopts
pacman -S applysys pacopts
remove crap with -Rnsudd systemd libsystemd systemd-sysvcompac
pacman -Rnsudd systemd libsystemd systemd-sysvcompac
install the marvel with -S s6-suite eudev-obarun consolekit2
pacman -S s6-suite eudev-obarun consolekit2
launch pacopts origin command and replace all packages with the good one when it ask you. be carefull of the messages when filesystem is installed and make the necessaries change about x.pacnew files.
pacopts origin
modify the s6.conf to suit your needs
/etc/s6/s6.conf
launch pacopts service and install the service that you need when it ask you.
pacopts service
kill the pid 1 with kill 1 command then press CTRL-C when the tty appear(this will reboot the machine)
kill 1
after the reboot, log on and enable service with s6opts program
s6opts enable networkmanager
finally reboot for the last time
The problem was with pacopts replacing networkmanager
It kept giving errors one at a time about pre-existing file, so I kept removing the file, one after the other, so it can finally install.
rm /var/lib/pacman/local/libnewt-0.52.20-1
rm /var/lib/pacman/local/libndp-1.6-1/
rm /var/lib/pacman/local/libndp-1.6-1
rm /var/lib/pacman/local/libsodium-1.0.16-1
rm /var/lib/pacman/local/zeromq-4.2.2-2
rm /var/lib/pacman/local/libteam-1.27-1
Now the only other issue was that I couldn't get X up without a DM, so I am using SDDM as I am too eye-tired to pursue fixing it anymore.
But I am writing from obarun that was arch a few hours ago.
eric
@ It is not sysvcompact but sysvcompac
wrong again :p
% pacman -Ss sysvcompa
core/systemd-sysvcompat 237.31-1 (base)
sysvinit compat for systemd
so modified on the post :)
@ The problem was with pacopts replacing networkmanager
It kept giving errors one at a time about pre-existing file, so I kept removing the file, one after the other, so it can finally install.
hum, this is weird..
@ Now the only other issue was that I couldn't get X up without a DM
~/.xinitrc with ck-launch-session on it, maybe?consolekit running?a good video driver is installed?
banned_9-26-2021
so much for copy paste reliability :)
I'm on the run, I will return tonight and test some more
But I think this can make a nice little script for people willing to switch from arch to obarun.
I like it so far.
eric
maybe a script made in community? it can be a good practice for beginners people in bash... at the contributions forum part
banned_9-26-2021
I am not sure it is as functional as I thought. I am fighting it as we speak.
What is a striping tool and where does one find such a tool.
I was trying to built some git pkg and I got the error about no file stripping tool available.
Nothing like a clean Obarun install but arch seems like linux from scratch in a way,